Back to our discussion of how you can learn to love others more.
How do you define love?
I like Dallas Willards' definition. To love is to "will the good of the other." Interesting definition in a number of ways. Back to the parts of our selves. We can assume that heart=will=spirit. So, by definition love must comes from the heart. But the heart is relatively weak, and is easily influenced by other parts of our self. Those other parts being the mind (thoughts & emotions), body, and social influences.
Which of these parts of ourselves do you see most getting in the way of loving others?
It has often been said that we first need to learn to love ourselves before we can love others. Do you think that is the way to go? Isn't the default to will our own good? Are people really referring to guilt and shame when they say we don't love ourselves? Does guilt and shame really prevent us from loving ourselves? What are we to do with these thoughts and emotions? Do you think there may be another path, rather than pursuing love of self more?
Now, it is assumed that it is okay to love ourselves, or to will our own good. What may not be okay is willing our own good to the detriment of others. The second part of the great commandment is to love others the same way we love ourselves. Seems like a win-win. We will the good of ourselves and others. What does this require???
8 comments:
hey mark-
what dallas willard book would recommend reading first?
i've heard him speak via podcast, and have been told his books are great, but also very difficult.
just wondering what you think would be a good start.
His book The Great Omission is a collection of articles he has written about discipleship. It is a bit lighter than his other books because they were written first as stand alone articles. It is good.
His best is probably The Divine Conspiracy. There is a little slow section, but if you get through it it is classic Willard. It is about the Sermon on the Mount.
Renovation of the Heart is good in parts.
Spirit of the Disciples is a good one for theology about the spiritual disciplines, but not too much on the practice end.
He is not a "pop" writer. He is a philosopher by profession.
I have listened to lots of his talks that are on podcasts out there. He is a great speaker. I could listen to him for hours. There is a great series he does with Tod Hunter on spiritual formation that is excellent. I think you can get them on Radio Allelon.
Willard certainly is provocative and has mentored many, like Richard Foster, Todd Hunter, and Brian McLaren.
The whole loving your self can probably be misinterpreted...a lot...most people think if you love yourself you do whatever you feel like you want to do...loving yourself can be mixed up with just having a perverse freedom...i think to love yourself means to do for yourself what you truly think is the best...like loving others...to do to/for others what you believe is truly best for them...so it requires a lot of self sacrifice..cuase it means that you dont always get what you want cuase it isnt always best...
gotta go...hope thats enough to reply to...
I think you are right, Aaron.
People associate Epicureans with the phrase "eat, drink, and be merry." Kind of like, "go for it" or "play hard." Even though he was godless, Epicurus believed in modesty in living and limiting our desires. He believed it lead to the best life.
Drink in excess and you get a hangover. Eat too much and you get fat. Party all night and you are tired the next day.
So, even the Godless know that what is best is not to live to satisfy our desires fully, at least.
That brings up the whole question of holiness. How do you define holiness? I think Richard Foster has one of the most interesting definitions. He says that to live a holy life is to live a life that "works" (or something like that). He would argue that living life in the kingdom was living a life that worked. It would also mean that something like getting 8 hours sleep was a spiritual discipline.
A holy life is a life that works. Loving yourself is living your life in a way that works, not stressed out, overcommitted, lazy, indulgent.
Just some thoughts.
Now for the really hard part. What does it mean to love our ememy? Who is our neighbor that we are supposed to love?
our nieghbors i am just guessing is everyone...thats what i have always thought...and what does it mean to love your enemies?...thats a good question...first we have to know who our enemies are...and what their needs are...thats sort of thing...you need to know someone before you can help them/love them..
hey aaron,
the story of the good samaritan is a great story and teaching by Jesus about loving your neighbor.
funny thing is you have to know the history behind that story to really get all that Jesus is saying.
read it. and here is a little summary to the neighbor question.
luke 10:25ff
the teacher of the law wants to know who his neighbor is. there was and i would say still is a huge debate about who actually is your neighbor. jews thought that people like them where their neighbors. or you could say jews thought their neighbors were other jews who acted, thought, and behaved like them.
so for Jesus to introduce a samaritan into the story he tells the teacher of the law would have been a huge, mind-blowing thing. why?
because samaritans and jews did not get a long...at all. in fact look at the ending of the story... Jesus asks the teacher of the law who was the man's neighbor... and notice what he says..."the one who had mercy on him."
traditionally we think "ohhh, how nice, he understood the story and answered correctly" i would say maybe he didn't...
i believe that he said those words through clinched teeth. because of his hate [especially teachers of the law, they really hated samaritans above all else] because of his hate for the people group of samaritans he can even say the word samaritan...
so who is your neighbor? i think you are right, we should consider everyone our neighbor, but maybe Jesus is saying something a little more he asks, "who is your neighbor?"... maybe the answer has to do with.. "well, who do you hate?"
the man did not consider his very enemies his neighbor. do we consider those who we don't get a long with as our neighbors. and the idea of being a good neighbor is one who looks after and takes care of others [other neighbors]. a person who keeps in mind the condition of others. and acting when another human is in trouble or need.
so we all say everyone is our neighbor, but do we really consider everyone as a neighbor...someone we should look after.
sorry, i went off...just some thoughts. i like checking here bro...it is a deep encouragement to me that you are chasing God.
ohh and mark,
thanks for the list.
i'm going to get started and go in order...this could take a decade. i know he is a professor of philosophy..at USC i think...
thats an interesting point...hm...i will have to think about who i hate...cusae i could say a few probably...but it wouldnt be a real hate...i will have to think about if there is anyone i truly hate...and how to love them...
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